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FORUM > Listening to God > response to: christians struggle to make decisions

response to: christians struggle to make decisions From: David Dawson 22 Aug 2010 (02:45)
Sadly most Christians do fail to make decisions for themselves in there Christian walk, I believe there are a few factors.
Many have come from poor backgrounds generational and even in the present.
Man has been under oppression from gentry i.e. employers poor wages work conditions and landlords with dickensian style housing, non existent sanitary conditions, ill health, alcohol, mortality and dare I say the church.
This obviously ebbed away over the generations, through the down fall of the Great in Britain the world wars, travel and communications but I still saw my grandfather \'top his hat\' to someone of a higher peer group in the 60\'s.

The traditional church, inclusive of new Methodism, Baptist, evangelical, and sadly Pentecostal.
They have used unwittingly similar tactics as my last comment made above.*
They have followed same strategy. If a man was not schooled properly or working class and low income workrs was rarely invited to do other than menial tasks in church.
Most churches demand folk to be members of the church who are then chosen to do small but important jobs in the church, those who choose not to be members because of work/family/commitement or unable to tithe.But these regular church goers of the body of Christ are faithful for years, even though they are faithful, devoted to the body of Christ and are givers, will not be invited to join in such as the breaking of bread or be not included to help out in ministrial chores. Then we have those brothere and sisters who have wonderful testimonies of salvation and so full of the Holy Ghost and giftings they are not used even though its evident. \'Many times I’ve heard ministers say, there not ready yet or sit them down for a while until they quieten down some\'
This applies even to fellowships groups, they may allow the man to be an usher if he was found to be a giver, or go round with the offerring basket.
The bonus is he may have the privilege of being asked to serve the bread and fruit juice [sacraments].It is a rarity if the servers pray over the sacrements as well.
The revivals in Wales was wonderful revival of the Lord, thousands were getting saved simple miners and farm labourers were moving in the gifts of the Holy Ghost., what stopped that work, the traditional church! The relgious men came upon these spirit filled men and they eventually encouraged this beleievers to go to bible college and this simple men flagged under the subtle pressure from the learned. That is why churches all over Wales are empty; they went back into the old ways. [See comment para 1]

The lack of Holy Ghost teaching and discipleship.
Most churches run allsorts of bible studies from the Spirit-less Alpha course to churches own programmes. Most are probably good teachings and good studies.
In my experience majority of what ive seen and done have been useful.
But its a rare one that teaches the folk that they are minister*s as much as the pastors, five fold ministries, deacons, elders [team leaders not included non biblical] *[2Cor6v4]

I believe this where the ministry/pastors don’t want to take there people down, because most don’t want to lose control, or find the tea lady has been gifted with healing, or there are others that God has given different gifts ministries. [Rom 12v3]
The pastors/teachers fail to encourage there people that they need to seek there gifting there calling, there vision; there is no teaching on how to use these gifts.
They may not be great orators or the best givers, or musicians, or even young people. They need to be shown how; if the minister doesn’t know how then they must invite someone they know who has that experience of gifting.
Sadly most of the people want platform ministry and that’s not feasible because God has put a man of God to minister to the folk and church times are about 3hrs Sunday morning 2 hrs bible studies and if you got 3/4 people want to preach, Gods word will never come forth from the appointed man.
Again, I assume this due to lack of Bible College teaching, they don’t teach the pastors what to do in these situations.

The simple remedy is to encourage and build up the people in there gifting, talents and ministry’s and encourage them to go in the highways and by ways, this where the Lord sent His disciples.
This learning area is where there confidence grows this where they may make decisions and mistakes and learn from them.
Luk 4:18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

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God makes my decisions  From: June Ritchie 06 May 2011 (22:30)
In the early days God called me to preach and shortly after I entered my pentecostal church I told the Pastor who promptly invited me to join his special preacher\'s class. No bible college just one evening a week sitting at the feet of two venerable bible scholars that went on for 31/2 yrs but I didnt have to wait that length of time to get openings to preach all the students in it got their turn. And when the time came I didnt have to beg for any openings outside of that church for God by His Spirit opened the door to the Methodist circuit and was allowed to serve in both denominations. I am not and was not either special or rich just someone who had seen thew call of God to minister.
A bible college was formed later in the evenings for all who desired to train and receive certificates so I had a long and wonderful time under a venerable scholar who is a Dr. of theology filled with the Holy Ghost who had two other men who supported and helped in that ministry.I thank God for the men of God who trusted God and opened the doors of service to little people like me.
am sure there are many of them about.
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blessed  From: David Dawson 07 Jun 2011 (02:51)
thank you dear sister you\'ve gladden my heart,in the late seventies the [billy graham days [london, manchester liverpool]traditional churches were losing members by the bucket load.
there was resurgence towards the more charismatic churches, people saw the traditional churches as part of the establishment. those seeking more in the more traditional ones could not be pacified by the introduction of guitar playing and upbeat songs of the fisher folk [the bees knees of modern music in churches in 60s\'-80s,].
Spring harvest brought a refreshing, folks were getting saved [inclusive vicars].
There is so many christians whose gifting and ministries who have never been encouraged to use them. Although Christians talents and abilities are used.

It seems the church leaders don\'t know how to handle or channel members of there congregation who have no formal theological or bible college degrees or certification and who are not able to sing or play an instrument but they all have apparent Holy Ghost ministries and gifting.
Discipleship is done by exampleship, studying, meditating on the Word of God, obedience, giving, submission and being full of the Holy Ghost [only some aspects of discipleship] 2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

If a man or woman is being discipled as in 2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
They should aslo be discipled or taught basic principals of there gifting and there calling
Many are faithful to their church and there pastor and dont want to be rebellious but they yearn for the encouragement and guidance from there pastor/elders..

sadly as already stated in previous letters there is a great push creating team leaders, we do need team leaders but there has to be a governing body of elders, Elders are entirely different from trustees and team leaders..Elders are anointed men of God placed into the church by divine appointment by God to enhance support and guide the pastor of the church and cannot be sacked. Whereas the team leader can go where ever the pastor sends him and can be sat down or moved over... blessing
1Ti 5:18 For the Scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The laborer is worthy of his reward.

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spiritual success  From: June Ritchie 08 Jun 2011 (08:33)
in reply I would have to say that I do not see spiritual success maybe in the same way you do. But As someone who has a foot in a lovely African church where African folks try to bow to you or to kiss your hand! I see it as nothing to do with money or status but respect!
As an older woman I find that respect gladdening and also serving God in Southend on Sea in the mid to late 1980s I was led to address many men I met as SIR!
Age didnt come into it then and it doesnt now either. But what was showing was surprise at being met with a form of respect does that make it bad?
Colonialism made many bad and unjust mistakes, but one thing it tried to do was to EDUCATE where needed. Many foreign preachers now ministering in our land are proof of that and medics! Good things really can happen in colonialism then. Have the people of Zimbabwe got a better deal now as a country free from our colonialism? My heart aches for them for theres more than one kind of oppression.
I give my books away free to all people who desire them and dont ever ask have they money in the bank or could they pay. My support is growing as God plans it and He widens my ministry where He will.
But also NO am afraid I dont always know which direction Im meant to go in at such times I just have to pray and let Him lead which He does at His leisure and not mine.
I\'ve been fortunate in some ways for had experience of traditional and free pentecostal churches as well over the years. Yes I do prefer the Holy Ghost style of church and the wonderful freestyle worship though not excess I have seen in past years. In a small corner now I can still see life as a success because God intervenes when he wills it to put me in a kind of limelight.
When He wants to, He makes me a success in my writing ministry and certainly has given me favour over the years in so many ways. I have met with envy and jealousy through over- ambition in the church and learned to hate those trends in the body of Christ! they come from pride and as such are enemies of God.
And they are widespread not just one denomination but in all.
Because we too often remain just flesh instead of Spirit.
Just like Peter, John and Andrew I am an amateur Christian not a professional one so not being driven on with an axe to grind.
Just seeking the prayer of jabez Lord widen my boundaries and if you dont I WILL STILL STAND!
I am no richer now than before, yet i do gain respect and that is a thought of thankfulness to me. For respect costs little but can mean much dont you think? I respect all those folks who took hold of me, noticed me and gave me my chances. whatever denomination. I look up to men of God whoever they are as i see God in them. there are some lovely ones.
I see my last 41 yrs as a disciple as full of both trials and favour with an often winding path to travel. Confusion yes, frustration yes, but O the blessings that follow! Its A great life obeying Father God.
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Christlike  From: David Dawson 09 Jun 2011 (00:00)
1Pe 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
i think this scripture fulfills much of our lifes, the bible encourages to seek the Gifts and using them brings a oneness with the Holy Spirit a sense of fulfilling your role in the body of Christ. Its being obedient to the Word of God, Sadly in the past women generally have been prevented to express there calling and gifting in church. Irrespective God has called us to do a thing and we\'ve obeyed.
It is when we enter the third world and see starving people worshipping Our Father, they walk miles in the hot sun to hear the Word of the Lord. i have been involved and invited to the Dem.Rep.Congo but it hasn\'t happened i think the Lord knows i cant bear the pain of seeing my and sister and brothers desperate fro medicine clean water a pencil or a piece of bread..
Romania eighteen yrs ago where they were so desperate for the \'Living Word of God\'
God has graciously allowed me to be a part of a small Nigerian church in cheetham hill, i feel ashamed they have regular all night prayer [12am to 6am] meetings not for Africa but for the UK, young boys and girls filled with the Holy Spirit praying and worshipping Jesus.
if you go out early sunday morning at one time you saw a majority of whit brits make there way to church not now all you can see is black families going to church.what a blessings to this almost heathen country. Little did the likes of David Livingstone and other missionaries know what futuristic impact the work they did have on the UK today, they have come to evangelise the Uk.ptl.#
The africans stood there ground in the church of england synod opposing sexually orientated vicars for the same gender marriages etc

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Fitting in!  From: June Ritchie 09 Jun 2011 (20:36)
I know what you mean in this sadness and grief for I feel it too almost daily as the appeals pour through the door. So many of them and so many deserving cases! but for the ordinary person it has to become a choice who to help and how much by. It would be wonderful to be able to give to every single charity that asks it of you. The Africans\' love of the bible is so real and bible study books like mine are popular among them here far more than the English who has always enjoyed a free bible walk many of them for most of their lives. If you live in a nice home you just cannot compare with the hovels that the poorer are living in overseas we seem to have so much against their so little!
So much worldwide corruption even by leaders from their own background.
And that is sadly something we cannot cure only pray against.
The reaction to immigrants is very mixed and often angry and yet, can we begrudge them the chance to make good and to live in a decent home with electric light and running water? . I feel there is a chasm between us when just having a bathroom is a luxury many of them havent known.
Frindships have to be formed and equal relationships too in order to please God
and in that sense have worked to get it right. For my 70th birthday in two weeks time my Nigerian church friends will come to my home and attend a barbecue garden party the divine plan is to make them welcome and see that all kinds mix together on an equal footing. I pray it will be a witness to our surrounding neighbours and that God will bless with a sunny, warm day. We have to be instruments of His love and its not always easy but Jesus makes it eASIER.
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